Females are raised around the same misogyny that males are exposed to, and I find it amazing that many girls and women (and some males) are able to break free from this brainwashing. I find the biggest obstacle women have to overcome to work together is the litmus test. Females routinely litmus test each other on everything in the kitchen sink, and one misstep and you are thrown aside. Men may disagree with each other on a whole host of issues but will work together on a shared goal. This is learned behavior. Misogynistic men don't even give a woman a chance because "Commentary and analysis is to be left to the men of course, and the women with opinions that the men like" and "The behaviour of men is not allowed to be used to paint over the work of other men in the way as women are smeared with the errant behaviour of troublesome women." I've found the phrase "The Feminists" used to dismiss any opinion one doesn't like coming from a female or a group of women, whether or not they are actually feminists. All the above just shows that they are dumb.
Thank you for writing this piece. Many of the women in the movement have been on a similar trajectory. We thought our male allies had our back but as soon as they get a platform so many have used it to progress their own perspective, one seemingly blind to the female perspective. We must have endless sympathy for certain men yet women must behave like the perfect victim lest we be deemed misandrist, ultra, radfem - whatever they can use to shut us up. There seems to be little objective criteria for assigning this status, other than those deemed decent by them. Women need to pull back and put our energies and our money with women who centre women and safeguarding.
Very silly conduct by supposed feminists - How I miss Germaine Greer's elegant emotionally intelligent intellectual debate - Rise above the rabble - sing the praises of good ; I was blocked when i tried to attend an event for brave Ms Grover ; I saw some of the talent at the event after the fact and being deigned not good enough by the self described gate keeper - its a amusing and ironic that women and gay men can be their own worst enemy - solidarity brothers and sisters who are not gunna fall for this ultra conservative homophobic and sexist propaganda - nice is as nice does
Pawns indeed. I think it's a pity how this horrible abuse is a decoy for the real arguments - Gender-Law Repealers versus Gender-Law Retainers, ~"trutrans" believers versus people who don't believe in trans.
I have always found it fascinating that so many women have a tendency to unquestionably assume gay men are natural allies for women when we seek to examine the basis of our oppression. On the surface of things it's easy to work out why the assumption could be made, but in the current context of what is driving feminist radicaliisation its bemusing to observe a level of astonishment being expressed by women belatedly discovering that men tend to express solidarity with men regardless of sexual orientation.
Just because some men suffered oppression due to homosexuality (a disgust arising from the belief that homosexuals desire penetration and to perform the passive - just like women) in reality it hasn't made them more like women, or more insightful to our colonisation. The locus of our oppression is in the physical, material manifestation of our bodies. Gay men might have shared some of the hate we experience, but they have never been inescapably in our bodies.
Since recently entering a political era where homosexual orientation is nominally not discriminated against and regarded as no less equal in rights to heterosexuality, it seems the majority of gay men have no problem resuming their privilege to act like men, which includes taking up all the same mainstream masculinist deprecating views of women.
I don't have a problem with Grace O'Malley outing men's misogyny, but she's no shero of mine.
I had a problem with her and her supporters publicly bullying Jenny Watson for 6 months on X with name-calling, speculative and unfounded accusations of a serious reputation-destroying nature.
She was wrong about Jenny and needs to apologise to her, and show far more caution in the future. This goes for the women from LWS who participated in Jenny's bullying too.
The type of bullying Jenny Watson was subjected to should never be 'normalised' or dismissed.
it is not all of LWS btw; a few errant behaviours does not excuse any votes for parties that support the abysmal legislative muck ; Vote "Party of Women"... The lady is a big girl and these are angry, defensive and scared or scary bullies .... or women will loose like as has occured already in: Aus, US, Canada , Scotland, NZ; do not vote Conserv, Lib dems, Greens , labor - The only real option is Reform !? Omg That is the hard fact we are forced to go rogue to assure our sexual realities are respected
Females are raised around the same misogyny that males are exposed to, and I find it amazing that many girls and women (and some males) are able to break free from this brainwashing. I find the biggest obstacle women have to overcome to work together is the litmus test. Females routinely litmus test each other on everything in the kitchen sink, and one misstep and you are thrown aside. Men may disagree with each other on a whole host of issues but will work together on a shared goal. This is learned behavior. Misogynistic men don't even give a woman a chance because "Commentary and analysis is to be left to the men of course, and the women with opinions that the men like" and "The behaviour of men is not allowed to be used to paint over the work of other men in the way as women are smeared with the errant behaviour of troublesome women." I've found the phrase "The Feminists" used to dismiss any opinion one doesn't like coming from a female or a group of women, whether or not they are actually feminists. All the above just shows that they are dumb.
absaloootely
Thank you for writing this piece. Many of the women in the movement have been on a similar trajectory. We thought our male allies had our back but as soon as they get a platform so many have used it to progress their own perspective, one seemingly blind to the female perspective. We must have endless sympathy for certain men yet women must behave like the perfect victim lest we be deemed misandrist, ultra, radfem - whatever they can use to shut us up. There seems to be little objective criteria for assigning this status, other than those deemed decent by them. Women need to pull back and put our energies and our money with women who centre women and safeguarding.
"Try to be careful to not sound like a creepy rapist in a message group is good advice for everyone."
I can hear you saying this, Edie and I revel in your dry wit! XD
Very silly conduct by supposed feminists - How I miss Germaine Greer's elegant emotionally intelligent intellectual debate - Rise above the rabble - sing the praises of good ; I was blocked when i tried to attend an event for brave Ms Grover ; I saw some of the talent at the event after the fact and being deigned not good enough by the self described gate keeper - its a amusing and ironic that women and gay men can be their own worst enemy - solidarity brothers and sisters who are not gunna fall for this ultra conservative homophobic and sexist propaganda - nice is as nice does
Pawns indeed. I think it's a pity how this horrible abuse is a decoy for the real arguments - Gender-Law Repealers versus Gender-Law Retainers, ~"trutrans" believers versus people who don't believe in trans.
Great article, Edie, spells it all out.
The litmus test is a belief (or professed belief) in 'true trans'
I have always found it fascinating that so many women have a tendency to unquestionably assume gay men are natural allies for women when we seek to examine the basis of our oppression. On the surface of things it's easy to work out why the assumption could be made, but in the current context of what is driving feminist radicaliisation its bemusing to observe a level of astonishment being expressed by women belatedly discovering that men tend to express solidarity with men regardless of sexual orientation.
Just because some men suffered oppression due to homosexuality (a disgust arising from the belief that homosexuals desire penetration and to perform the passive - just like women) in reality it hasn't made them more like women, or more insightful to our colonisation. The locus of our oppression is in the physical, material manifestation of our bodies. Gay men might have shared some of the hate we experience, but they have never been inescapably in our bodies.
Since recently entering a political era where homosexual orientation is nominally not discriminated against and regarded as no less equal in rights to heterosexuality, it seems the majority of gay men have no problem resuming their privilege to act like men, which includes taking up all the same mainstream masculinist deprecating views of women.
Thank you Edie xx
Well said, Evie.
Edie, sorry 😀
I don't have a problem with Grace O'Malley outing men's misogyny, but she's no shero of mine.
I had a problem with her and her supporters publicly bullying Jenny Watson for 6 months on X with name-calling, speculative and unfounded accusations of a serious reputation-destroying nature.
She was wrong about Jenny and needs to apologise to her, and show far more caution in the future. This goes for the women from LWS who participated in Jenny's bullying too.
The type of bullying Jenny Watson was subjected to should never be 'normalised' or dismissed.
it is not all of LWS btw; a few errant behaviours does not excuse any votes for parties that support the abysmal legislative muck ; Vote "Party of Women"... The lady is a big girl and these are angry, defensive and scared or scary bullies .... or women will loose like as has occured already in: Aus, US, Canada , Scotland, NZ; do not vote Conserv, Lib dems, Greens , labor - The only real option is Reform !? Omg That is the hard fact we are forced to go rogue to assure our sexual realities are respected
I realise. I didn't say or mean 'all'. I totally support Party For Women! Go Women! #POW ✊️🙋♀️
s all good grrl friend …oops was that cultural appropriation ?!… All cool